Do you remember a while back I’ve posted Paasche Talon airbrush review here? If you’ve read it you surely got the feeling that it is an amazing airbrush.
I’ve also had mentioned it before couple of times. It definitely doesn’t compare to any of the Chinese knock offs, which I mentioned in my last article.
Just a few days back I’ve received an email which changed my opinion on this.
I’m not saying that a good airbrush suddenly became a bad one, that’s not the case. If you carefully read my previous post about airbrush prices you will see that not just me but even my bro who actually does more airbrushing than me has switched from Iwata to that Talon I reviewed simply because it fits the purpose.
So, what has happened?
Here is the whole message from Bryan:
As I promised, here is the bad-venture I had with the Paasche Talon.
Bought it along with the Neo for Iwata from a reputable airbrush supplier.
First things is that post offices had some issues and the package arrived one month later, instead of 15 days max as usual. That’s OK for now. I was really excited when I received all this so totally forgot about the time spent waiting for package.
When it arrived home I opened the Neo box first and was really impressed with the brush itself. Nice finish, good balance and smooth trigger known from the Iwata product.
Put some water in it and sprayed to see if everything was OK and no bubbles in the cup. All went fine and I was even so pleased that I tried it with some ink to see how it sprays. Fine lines were constant and trigger control very smooth. I had the Walmec airbrush before which was not so smooth in control.
OK, I packed everything after a nice flush cleaning as it was only ink and with some cleaner, everything was shinning as new.
Time for the best now. The Paasche Talon. I bought the TG set with the 3 nozzle and needle setup (.21, .33, .66 config). The .33 was already installed on it.
First thing i noticed with the brush is that the name Paasche Talon engraved on it was not aligned as in the picture from the net. It was not even straight, almost like the brush moved during engraving. The engraved part was higher in location and from the numerous Talon photos I’ve seen, I have never seen one engraved in that position.
OK, I told myself that this was perhaps just a minor issue and perhaps from the photos on the web, optically wise the curves on the brush made the positioning different.
Put my finger on the trigger and I immediately noticed that it was not as smooth as the Neo. I had to press a little harder on it and this without air pressure on the other side. But paint control movement was OK. Turned the head of the brush towards me and I could see that the nozzle was not aligned and had a weird round formation. Not belled or bent but not normal either. From first sight I thought it was normal for this brush.
I have a x20 magnifier and a closer look showed me that the nozzle was damaged right out of the box. This really pissed me off and I was really mad that I did not even swapped the other nozzle for tests.
I told myself that I waited too long for a faulty brush to come and I could not even try it. So I decided to give it a try anyway and hooked the supplied hose to it. Another surprise, the thread on the hose or the one on the air valve is somewhat too new and will not screw completely leaving a big air leak. I had to use a rubber fitter pliers to screw it completely and only then the leak stopped. I screw, unscrew and screw again till the connection was acceptable and I was able to do it with my fingers.
Now upon trigger press for air, I could hear another air hiss somewhere in the airbrush other than the head. I looked for it but could not find it. The thing is that I can hear it like two air stream within the same brush and I can even stop it if I don’t press completely on the trigger but this cannot be as we want to completely press and control only paint.
As I expected the brush performed badly with some water in it and bubbles in the cup, along with water coming out upon air action.
I was really angry about this as it was supposed to be the best between the two and i found myself with the Neo being 100x better that the Talon. I love my Neo for Iwata btw :)
I mailed the shop where I bought the nightmare and explained to them the situation and sent the same mail to Paasche customer service. They replied the next day and asked me to send it back for warranty. They would replace it for me and send me a new package with no additional cost. I posted it the next day and they received it 10 days later.
I accepted but the experience was so bad that I started to look into other brands and perhaps same setup with different needles and nozzle. I started reading post on other users with faulty Talons and I can say that there are numerous faulty Talons out there.
This made me start looking into an alternative and I fell onto the Badger Renegade series. I started first looking at the issues users are getting with them and I could find none till now. I asked the shop to ask Paasche to send them the package instead and that i will take the Badger Krome instead.
That’s it Sergej about my bad experience with Talon. I think this one slipped the QC dept or has been just mishandled in factory, during package or engraving. Don’t know where but it will not land in my hands anymore. Never ever a Paasche again. I have been told by an experienced artist that they are neglecting the quality of their brush and rather focus on cost now. This is bad as for only 20-30USD less they lost a customer.
I warned you this was gonna be a long story man but hey, you like long stories and I think I gave you a nice detailed situation, hahahah.
Also I would like to thank you as I started a DIY silent compressor and I followed a part of the process from your blog (diy compressor). I do have a 24lt piston type compressor but that one I built out of curiosity and by the time the package I ordered arrived. It let me paint at night and it is very very silent.
Thank you Bryan,
Well guys as you can see not a pleasant experience. I would not want to experience the same, especially when expecting a good quality product.
I would point out that Bryan has been happy with Paasche customer service. But mistake has been made somewhere and I had to share this because stories like this can actually raise awareness and trigger investigation. The Talon I’ve got for my review didn’t have any of the issues described by Bryan above.
My thoughts are that every production line should have quality control at the end before they put it into the box. I know for sure that Harder and Steenbeck and probably many others do that in their factories all the time. Paasche probably doesn’t have anyone checking their Talons for mistakes at the end of the line that’s why this cases occurs.
Do you have a Talon? Or a Neo? What are your thoughts on it?
Please leave a comment or share it with your friends!
For years I have been a huge Paasche fan. The Turbo and V#1 that I bought in the beginning of the eighties of the previous century were great guns that allowed me to spray excellent fine detail and in case of the V#1 also larger areas with great control. Then at an airbrush fair my treasured V#1 got stolen while i was doing a round along the booths of my fellow participants in the show.
I kept spraying with the Turbo but bought an other gun to replace the V#1 at the fair – an Iwata HP-BH which was comparable to the V#1 but more than twice as expensive. I had no choice however, because I was demonstrating at the fair.
Many years later in 2012, from a sense of nostalgia I bought a new generation V#1. I noticed the adjusting wheel in front of the trigger had disappeared compared to the model I used to have in photos on the Internet before I bought it, but I thought I would give the new generation V#1 a try.
My disappointing experience you can read in my blog: http://communicats.blogspot.nl/2012/08/testing-1.html
It appears Paasche did not get rid of quality control in the Talon production line only; the new V#1 was nowhere near as good as the old models. It is very sad to see such a renown company as Paasche being messed up by exclusively focusing their policy on cost cutting instead of working efficiently while continuing to produce great guns like they did in the past.
Another great comment there Chris. Probably it is exactly like you said, they focus on cost and forget about quality. This is sad. Jens Paasche might turn in the grave …
I own an Iwata Neo (siphon feed) and one of my good friends owns a Talon. While I have not painted with the Talon it felt really good in my hand with a smooth trigger control and I have seen the work that he has put out with it. We are both miniature painters so detail and control is key for us.
I have the Iwata neo and I have to say I was very impressed with the quality vs price of the brush. The trigger control reminds me of the Devilbiss Dagr that I own. The only downside is the airbrush is kinda heavy causing hand fatigue after long uses of the airbrush. But for the cost you can not complain. I picked up the siphon feed Neo to use as a basing brush.
Thanks Larry, another nice notes for anyone interested. I’ve got Iwata CM C+ but never have used or even tried Neo. Maybe some time in the future. ;)
I have a Talon that has the three differnt size needle and nozzles. I had a problem with the .2 nozzle and aircap being centre to each other, also my aircap had a hairline crack. Trigger is smooth and both the .3 and .6 are fine. I email paasche and they are sending me replacement parts. Im happy with the talon apart from the above issues and im very happy with the customer service. I have never used an iwata but seems most of the industry greats use them. They all give trouble eventually, anything mass produced does. Go with what fits your pocket and make it work for you.
Thanks Ryder, good info. The last sentence is awesome! Some people even say that the best airbrush is custom made. From my own experience about Iwata, they are the best quality (I love my CM C+) but cost is hm…. too much
My talon with 3 tips will only spray properly with the largest tip, small ones sputter even with super diluted paint. trigger is to stiff and works your finger too much. But I do like the heavier strong build of the Talon. over all not to pleased , it was a gift and cant return it.
Thanks for sharing your experience with Talon. I understand your situation, I would not be pleased to return the gift no matter how bad it is. But I would probably try to find out why it spatters… Did you ask on airbrush forums?
My Talon was also faulty at the arrival, I called Paasche and they corrected the problem. To bad I had to pay for shipping.
I choose it for thicker metallic inks, the TG-SET with .66mm made most sense to me. I have been using Paasche VL for many years and it was the ever lasting tool, just not adequate for artwork.
After the repair airbrush come back with BEND needle (!) but it was correctable.
The story have happy ending, it didn’t give me any trouble again.
I use it for drawings and painting mostly with .38 mm head. My favorite are Liquitex inks and even metallics are spraying great.
BTW, artworks I use it for are large up to 22″X30″ for something far more delicate (and small) I use H&S Infinity.
Incentive was the price (plus additional sale at Chicago Airbrush), and ability to change heads instead of buying two separate airbrushes.
Frankly the TAF-3 Fan Aircap is a life saver when covering large surfaces :)
Hey Christopher, Great and very informative comment. It seems that Paasche deals with its Talon problem on the daily basis. They should figure it out that something isn’t going well on their production line.
BTW, we all would like to see some of those large paintings you mentioned.
Yes, it made me feel very disappointed in company that I use-to trust.
Keep in mind that VL we use for very intensive work in design and model making, prototyping in Industrial Design office. After work was done (so often with car paints) the dissembled airbrush will end up in ultrasonic cleaner and back to work. True hero!
As many of artists I have a small collection of airbrushes, none will do everything :)
As far as artwork with Talon, this one may be representative:
True that! Thanks again and nice painting btw.
Thanks! It is a bit hard to photograph them, all is changing depending on viewing angle.
Mine talon was all bad as well it spray a line and the finish came off I will never buy from these hill Billy’s again
Thanks for your addition Andy, it means a lot for all of us. I see that there is more people that don’t like Talon then are actually satisfied with it.
I own a Talon TG. I bought it the very day they came out on the market. It came in a foam lined black plastic case. It came with .25 tip and needle only. The tigger pull was a little rough. Nothing a little bit of sanding with fine wet and dry sandpaper didn’t fix. I’ve owned it now for a few years and have been very happy with it. The chrome has worn away in some spots, but still performs excellent. I now own many airbrushes from many different companies. The Talon still holds its own and I find myself using it often. Maybe since it was hot off the press is why faulty quality was not an issue for me. Assuming Paasce wanted to make a good first impression with a new airbrush model. I doubt Id buy a second one because of the many bad reviews and unhappy customers ive read and heard.
Hey Dave, Thank you very much for comment. I think that maybe you are right that they wanted to make a good impression. I’m happy with my Talon too.
How long do you have it?
I think I’ve had it now for a little over 3 years.
My Talon is very good and I have no problem with it. The trigger is a little hard to push down and it maintains pressed alone. How may I sandpaper it to fix this disappointment?
If trigger gets stocked down then I would not recommend to sandpaper anything. With your Talon you should have one inbus key, with this you can take it apart and try to clean it (maybe there is some dry paint) if this does not help, this part can be bought separately.
I would not sandpaper it, I can’t imagine how I would do it.
Try cleaning with Citrasolve or some other citrus based cleaner (or Hoppes #9 Gun cleaner) first, then flush with water and lube with airbrush lube first. If this does not fix the problem, it may be the air valve itself which needs to be replaced, I’ve had paint “push back” into the air gun body once or twice and it makes the trigger do this.
I’ve got 3 Talons and a Vision, never had a problem with any of them that I didn’t cause. I own several airbrushes and I get rid of any that I do not like, Never had to get rid of a Talon, Sotar or Infinity.
I had a Talon…for three days! Sent it back due to a rough trigger that would frequently “hang” and require that I lift the trigger mechanism and put it back into place. On disassembly, I found that the trigger-to-air valve connection is a ball and socket. As long as there is sufficient force to keep the two together, the trigger will work smoothly. However, because of some out-of-tolerance machining, the trigger can dislodge from the air valve, move slightly forward, and hang up of the machined gun body. You can’t sand this issue away so I wouldn’t even try. With 15 PSI air pressure applied, the trigger required extra force to actuate the air valve but was smooth when pulled back to deliver paint. Until Paasche fixes the machining on this gun, I would recommend that you look elsewhere….seems to be too hit-or-miss on quality.
Thank you for detailed explanation. I think Paasche should be long aware that they have issues with Talon, I hope the fixing won’t take ages…
Unfortunately, having been in product engineering and manufacturing for many years, I recognize that this is not a quality issue…. it is a design issue and that makes it tough to fix. Primarily, the tolerances for threading the body for the valve are inadequate to compensate for “slop” in the trigger design. I do hope that they fix this pretty soon….the Talon, when working, worked really well and felt good too. Cheers.
Exactly, I have the working one at home, and do use it. I was lucky to get the one without any issues and I am happy with it. I use more than my Iwata CM C+ as Iwata was much more expensive so I save it as much as I can…
With respect to Neo Iwata I can not comment just as Bryan, some five years ago acquired one Talon passche the same as that described here, a miracle I have not broken that really disassemble the arm and turned to disarm , for each of its components, finally 4½ years ago no longer needs it, thinking about buying “better” buy a compressor Iwata Silver Jet and special leave as the price for Iwata Neo CN that is not by Iwata among both have greatly disappointed me, compressor malfunctions solely between what is emptied and filled 3 cup of painting Neo and martyrdom wait for it to cool and repaint after several minutes, with respect to airbrush, is the first experiment lid is and worse does DROPS !!! and spreads like spitting drops over here, over there, if that’s the finish that for my projects would be super but no, I almost perfect, smooth, fine painting, because at the end I am not a professional airbrush but if I would try to do the work well. If if is difficult to use these tools with all these details already is going crazy, the more complicated is the investment, he asks one to spend my money on this ?? …
So in this Iwata sense has lost a customer, this day work that merited at most 1 hour between applying a sealer and subsequent drying apply white paint some letters of MDF has been a nightmare for three hours, drops everywhere I will cover my several times, wipe and clean up finding that it had covered, finally finished, the job is not as clean, for someone who is not knowledgeable on the subject, as in this case my girlfriend, because they seemed beautiful letters as were, but I would call my work fiasco, especially one who gets tired more out of desperation than in reality what is being done.
being so do not share the same comment, for my Passche my first “expensive” airbrush imported from USA to my country Mexico, acquired in Chicago Airbrusing what has been the best choice, buy Iwata by a friend who lives in Texas told me that It was the best, but the truth have been very disappointed in these products, I have seen reviews and mention other products of better quality or range of Iwata but prices are much higher than Neo, almost three times the price, just now I was reading a review the neo even manufactures Iwata, is a maquila to compete with the Chinese market unbranded airbrushes.
Maybe some other time buy another Iwata product, the eclipse speak highly of him, and is multipurpose, neo, looks good, excellent finishes, but I actually ended not convince, between the airbrush and compressor, was today as the final battle, now I need another compressor immediately, now I have to invest in another compressor that if I allowed to work without interruption, and since my election will be one Passche D3000, the reviews are favorable for this product.
greetings To You Cesar
Thanks for really long and informative comment. At first I thought that this is kind of new spam practice as when I read it I feel that text is not natural but I think this is because English is not you first language. Did you use translator while writing it? If yes, I hope you will be ok if I fix the grammar in your comment so people reading it will understand what is going on. Please let me know asap. I’ll keep it here in this form till 15th of April. If I won’t here from you I will delete it.
I have had the Talon for a month and it worked great until I went to do a thorough cleaning. I now cannot get any paint to flow. I have taken in apart several times and cleaned every part, let it dry and tried it again without success. Air flows great just no paint. Only bubbles. Can’t even get water to spray. Anyone have any suggestions?
Have the same problems at times with ALL of my airbrushes, there is paint build up in the nozzle, Soak the nozzle for 2 hours in whatever thinner or reducer you use (for acrylics I use Hoppes #9, Simply Green, Citrasolve or whatever floats my boat at the time) then use a reamer on it, flush and wipe dry. Your paint or Ink has just “Cured” and you are cleaning a hard surface of paint. Have the same problem with Badger, Paasche and Harder and Steenbeck I own.
I’ve got 3 Talons and a Vision (which is along the same line as Talon, the parts are interchangeable) and have had no problems with them. Apparently something is going on at Paasche since Hobby-Lobby is closing out the line.
HELLO friends, very nice Blog. I have the PAASCHE TALON TG-3F and unfortunately presents the defect with each set of needles, nozzles and air caps (0.25 0.38 and 0.66 mm), bubbles are made in the gravity feed cup. I’ve tried everything, adjust the nozzles, I’ve cleaned each nozzles, air cap and needle, and nothing!. I couldn’t enjoy the airbrush I bought!. Besides, I live in Venezuela so, goodbye Guarantee!!! I’ve had a bad experience with PAASCHE TALON TG-3F. I had a good expectation about Talon but, I was wrong.
I have bought two Paasche Talons in the last 6 weeks, they look nice are well packaged and seem to work well enough for a beginner like me. Soon after I had started using it the size 2 nozzle cracked. I thought possibly I was pushing the needle into the nozzle to hard so installed a new nozzle and gently pushed the needle until it stopped at the nozzle and then tightened the collet. That nozzle lasted for a few painting sessions, probably less than an hour of use before cracking. A few days later I went to a size 1 nozzle and needle and very soon was rewarded with another cracked nozzle. I called Chuck at Paasche, he really didn’t offer much help, almost like this is a common problem and he didn’t want to hear about it anymore. Chuck did offer to send two replacement nozzles which I have not received yet. Today, I received a replacement size 2 nozzle that I had ordered from Amazon. That lasted 10 minutes and cracked. Paasche has a real problem with these nozzles and will not admit it. I have returned the last Talon purchase. The first Talon is no longer eligible to be returned so, it is now listed on e-bay. A good American Company? They are full of shit.
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